Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down in person with Mosab Hassan Yousef
The Brutal Reality of the Middle East | Mosab Hassan Yousef | EP 443 - YouTube
Transcript:
(00:05) we cannot be clashing like this inciting for violence harassing Jewish people harassing successful people bringing the Hamas nightmare into the American soil globalizing the intifa globalizing the chaos well these are very dangerous terms that we don't know what we're talking about from The River To The Sea they don't understand that back in 1987 when people start canting from The River To The Sea violence followed just shortly after that and this is my childhood trauma and when I saw the people chanting from The River To The
(00:40) Sea I knew we were in [Music] trouble hello everybody I had the opportunity today to talk to Mr mosab Hassan yusf who's a very complicated person he spent a lot of his life north of Jerusalem his father is shik Hasan Yousef who's a co-founder of Hamas um he told me that he loved his father but came to believe that his orientation in the world was deeply misguided he said the same thing about his culture in general he had a very brutal childhood he grew up during sequence of antifas became conversant with Bloodshed
(01:45) and and the death of children at a very early age in his life and that isn't the worst of it by a large margin he started to work for the Israeli intelligence in 1997 he was born in 1978 and uh was a very reliable source for them in relationship to the doings of Hamas he involved himself in the prevention of suicide bombings most particularly um we talked quite broadly about the situation in the Middle East about the culture that he was raised in about his the transform of his attitude towards Israel as a state um the
(02:36) Israelis as people his understanding of what constituted Palestine and the general situation in the Middle East uh it's very intense interview to say the least I suppose part of what I walked away from it concluding was that you know Fools Rush In Where Angels Fear To Tread and everybody has an opinion about Israel and Gaza and most of us don't have the wisdom or the experience to do anything but remain silent in the face of what's happening there you can watch listen to OAB yusf and draw your own
(03:19) conclusions about the catastrophe unfolding in the Middle East uh his conclusion was that alliance with the Israelis is the best pathway forward not only for the west but for the Arab world there's many people in the Arab world who believe that as well you know it's why the Abraham Accords are holding in face even in the face of Iran's attempts to tear that Accord to shreds so buckle up it's a wild ride so obviously there's a terrible mess in the Middle East and everybody has an opinion about it but um
(03:59) everyone's also woefully under what would you call it [Music] question I'd like to ask you is what is Hamas exactly how would you characterize it know before actually we say what is Hamas we need to ask ourselves what is Palestine okay because Palestine is non-existential um and uh it was never a country it's not ethnic group it's not a religion it's not a faith it's a colonial entity created by the British that lived for about 25
(05:04) years and Jews Arabs Drews Christians zionists um were called Palestinians before uh the termination of the British mandate it was called the British Mandate of Palestine so the Mandate itself uh had the name Palestine now right and this is all taking place after World War I when the after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire right right right so the Empire collapses there's there's questions about how the political boundary should be drawn the the British establish yeah this this state known as Palestine and so what should
(05:55) people think about that exactly like what do you think people should think about the fact that the British were involved I mean they won World War I and the ottoman Ottoman Empire collapsed so there was some mopping up to do and often those things are done in a hurry and with less than optimal information let's say yes well the the Ottoman Empire continued for about 400 years during that time they ethnically cleansed the Jewish people from their land which explains why the Jewish people were all over the place after
(06:27) World War World War I and and the all the atrocities and the persecution of Jewish people they felt the need to seek a refuge and the Homeland was the best option for the Jewish people now this led to clashes between the colonizer which was the British uh Empire and the Jewish people the Jewish people fought for their independence and they shed blood in the process also the Arabs did the same in 1948 when the United Nations um divided the land given the opportunity to the Jews and the Arabs to build and establish
(07:09) their own States the Jews declared their independence but the Arabs declared war against the Jews and I think this is a very important point to understand there was no such a thing as Palestine and when we talk about the British Mandate of Palestine it was never a state it was just a transitional period uh from the collapse of the otoman Empire to uh the uh termination of the British mandate and that was less than uh 28 years so that termination was in 1948 in 19477 okay okay so why in your estimation weren't two states established at that
(08:03) time a state for the Palestinian Arabs and a state for the Jews uh from Muslim point of view and this is where it gets tricky this is where nobody wants to talk about the ideological religious dimension of this war um from Islamic point of view the Al aamos and the surrounding areas does not define boundary the surrounding areas could be 100 miles could be 500 miles is an Islamic trust that no Muslim leader has the authority to give it away to the non-muslims so when the Jewish people returned to their Homeland um the Muslims
(08:51) outraged and that's the most fundamental reason and motive for the Arabs and Muslims to fight against Israel because they they consider that territory as an Islamic land right and that's the mosque that's built on what was the Temple Mount exactly it's actually the history of the mosque is uh is about approximately 1300 years but the Jewish temple beneath is a lot older than that and the Jewish ruins uh in Judea and Samaria still erected actually and the Jewish people have overwhelming evidence uh of uh artifacts and uh
(09:34) archaeology that support uh uh their existence over uh centuries Millennial but the Muslims don't there is no currency there is no book there is no Bible there is only a building that is uh 1300 years uh old and uh this is why for the Jewish people don't have a problem in principle to coexist with other ethnic groups like The even the Zionist movement did not have a problem to have uh two State solution back in the day H while the Muslims refus completely having uh Jewish existence on that land the same way in Mecca
(10:17) non-muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca even to drive through Mecca the same thing they want the situation to be in uh Jerusalem how did you how did you come to these conclusions I mean I don't imagine this is how you looked at the world when you were young like true so how did you how did you come to these conclusions I understand that your father shik Hassan yusf is a co-founder of Hamas so obviously that's complicated to say the least so when did tell me how you looked at things when you were a
(10:54) young man and and then what what events in your life started to change your your mind since I was very young I had CRI how old are you now I'm 45 years 45 okay okay so you were born in about 1980 1978 78 yeah so the U I had critical thinking from the early beginning of my life uh when the mullah told the uh funeral crowd that the angels of heaven are going to come back and uh uh ingate this deceased uh in the grave they're going to bring his soul back they're going to torture him and if he does not answer
(11:39) the right question it's going to be uh an open Hill I went back to the graveyard and I investigated I was only 10 years old uh and since that point of my life uh I did not find Death intimidating as much as actually became my drive to seek a higher truth uh it l me so tell me about that again I don't understand that story exactly what what what event was that so basically in the Islamic belief yeah uh there is something called the grave torture this is a device the religious authorities used to control uh
(12:17) the Muslim uh population uh when the person dies in the grave supposedly uh there is torture uh and there is interrogation if the person uh doesn't know who is his God who is his Prophet if he failed to answer the questions regarding the religion they're going to be uh uh tortured painfully they're like so it's like a last judgment sort of it happens in the transitional uh period yeah so because people die you know and they've been dying for thousands of years so when the afterlife hell is going to happen which
(12:59) is a fundament Al uh thing in Islam the afterlife heaven and hell so many people die and is there a torture so they come up with the story that there is grave torture whether Muhammad said this or not uh but it's widely believed in the Islamic faith and uh many people were afraid when when I was very young I asked all my friends to go back with me to the cemetery and uh none of them uh agreed and when I went back I was terrified um eventually I did not hear any screaming any torture and I put my ear to the ground trying to listen did you
(13:44) did this alone I did this alone because nobody none of my friends would come back with me to the graveyard it's terrifying is this during the day it was during the day during the day but eventually I found my peace even at nighttime and this might sound a bit psychic but I reached the point that was my challenge to myself where was I able to lay down in an open uh grave and look at the stars at midnight H how old were you when you did that um I was maybe 12 13 years old what do you think drove you to do that it's my fear of death yeah
(14:22) yeah because the entire culture usually people avoid it though rather than confronting it well it sounds strange but this is when I made peace with death and this is actually what empowers me what empowered me throughout my journey right so that's very young when you did that yes how many times did you go visit a grave so basically we were just uh next to the graveyard uh and uh this this is not actually the most important thing of observing death and having an uh early age encounter with death that the first person in started
(15:01) when I was living in that neighborhood so and you were living where exactly right next to the cemetery okay so here is the cemetery war and here's my here's my uh bed okay and where are you geographically located at that that's ramala and alir uh to the north of Jerusalem okay okay the capital of of what's the Palestinian okay basically okay so you're north of Jerusalem yes right but but this was we were at the heart of the conflict and now all the Bloodshed all the youngsters who got shot during the
(15:39) first person antifa we buried next door so I guarantee you that there is no one in that conflict that witnessed firsthand Bloodshed as much as it did as a child hundreds of people were buried next door whether they died naturally or they died because of the conflict or internal conflict between Hamas and fat where you know they shot each other or stabbed each other so the entire conflict was displayed in front of my eyes as a child and uh I couldn't find a stronger motive why are we suffering why are we dying and who's doing this to
(16:25) us of course the narrative on the Palestinian street that this is Israel this is the Jewish people killing us and as a child I did not have the power to discern to see a higher truth how could I the same thing with the children now in Gaz they suffer the consequences of War but they don't realize or understand how the how the war originated MH so in that situation I had a trauma of the First Palestinian intifada and all the memories stay with me this is what empowers me to carry on and that was when about that would be 1987 87 okay
(17:03) 1987 to uh 19 92 1990 what's the definition of antifa chaos people call it Uprising but the very definition not only of intifada of Palestine very similar definitions it's chaos it's disorder it's anti-establishment how does it arise simply yat sitting in tja this is supposed to be the father of the Palestinian Revolution yeah the same yaser Arafat who died with like4 billion dollar thatat a lot more yaser arat was an Egyptian K artist he was born in Egypt with a Egyptian accent it was so obvious
(17:54) to know that he's Egyptian but everybody was in denial that he's Palestinian and he's the father of the Palestinian Revolution um after they were kicked out of Jordan of Lebanon and the end of Indonesia some 2,000 miles away uh they came up with the idea to engineer the intifa they wanted trouble but from within they knew that this could be a lot more effective than trying to uh destroy Israel from outside uh and they sent children to die this has been their mechanism their strategy and who's they when I say they
(18:34) all those who are complicit in this continuous uh crime mhm all those who uh sacrifice children uh uh for power and for money it's a fundamental part of that culture we have to understand this first was the ideological Dimension that I told you about then sacrificing children is not uh something that make them feel guilty it's acceptable in that culture um so now as a student mask men used to come and we were just uh fifth and sixth grade we were very young and they would force all students to evacuate the school they paralyzed the
(19:19) educational system they paralyzed economy transportation and they wanted complete chaos and until today I asked myself if you were fighting against Israel why would you stop the education and the economy and the and all other uh aspects of the uh Arab life in the West Bank this is what intifada means so instead of going to school we um we stayed at home for the first two or three years of the First Palestinian intifa we did not go to school now instead many of the children got engaged in uh Stone throwing and this became our game
(20:05) I was part of that game and many of my friends got shot in the process throwing stones at the IDF or uh what we used to call them settlers uh just clashing uh of course many civilians got hurt in the process uh so they did not want us to go to schools and I did not understand why what about the economy what about the the uh the people who were forced to to shut down their stores and if they did not obey they became traitors and in the morning they came back to their to their stores and they were burnt down to ashes
(20:45) so by the means of intimidation uh yaser arat sitting uh in luxury MH like K today sitting in luxury in Qatar and what's in common between all these K artists that they were Outsiders living outside while they wanted the children to die on their behalf because what really uh globalized the intifada or the Palestinian cause is the children during the First Palestinian when the world saw a child in the face of uh a modern Army that was outrageous everybody simplified with the Cs so how did the leaders who how did
(21:34) the leaders of the inata benefit personally from putting children on the front line how what's the money pipeline precisely I mean Arafat ended up with an absolute bloody Fortune like an insane fortune and I know the same thing is happening but how exactly is that monetized it's the suffering of children produces an influx of forign Aid that's then then that's then pocketed essentially yes because on one hand they uh delegitimize Israel Israel become a child killer right right uh then uh there is no one in the world that does
(22:15) not sympathy with children dying right so there's no more uh destructive or powerful weapon in the hands of uh corrupt Reis Revolution uh that don't want to fight they didn't have the courage to actually fight in combat but they prefer that their children would die on their behalf in the meantime delegitimize Israel and uh globalize their CA the the International Community don't know the reality 100% on the ground they don't understand this game even up to now they see Hamas using children as
(22:59) human Shields which is very obvious this is what Hamas wanted from this War uh the International Community is still in denial MH a so when children are ding this this will lead to more chaos it would lead to war it would lead to uh today a global chaos but how how do you deflate the tension you deflate the tension by going to the middleman paying him off and he's going to uh stop the madness MH and this is how they paid off Yas paid of Hamas uh this is the Gaza War today this is not the first one this is the fifth one and
(23:44) every time Hamas started the war they used human Shields children died Hamas exaggerated the numbers the statistics they weren't accurate the International Community bent over and submitted to a ceasefire which basically guaranteed Hamas staying in power M but now how how do you silence Hamas for a while by giving them lots of money but this time Hamas thought they could double down uh on uh human Shields by putting booby traps all over the place uh schools hospitals mosqu they did not leave any secret location um in Gaza
(24:25) without using it using it as a shooting uh pad uh digging hundreds of miles of tunnels beneath one of the most populated areas on Earth um how come that wasn't widely known how come that wasn't widely known in the west well this is obvious this is obvious but the world isn't is in denial because it's much easier to condemn Israel you know when we have close to two billion Muslims repeating a certain narrative a false narrative that is baseless that say Palestine and we say the very Foundation of this narrative
(25:00) there's no such a thing as Palestine it never existed but everybody suddenly became a pro Palestine all the well it fits into the oppressor oppressed narrative right victim it's the victim absolutely narrative it's the victim mentality so now even in the United States the anti- bankers those who are in debt or anti-establishment Communists feminists socialists yeah islamists are coming in the same room protesting uh or opposing as Pro Palestine yeah well what is Palestine you are extreme opposites that you
(25:35) should not be in the same Avenue at all yeah without without Israel you would be conspiring to destroy each other islamist and Communists clearly but suddenly now you are appearing yeah so this phenomenon of Palestine it just it's basically it shows you falsehood versus truth and the yeah well there's something really fun Al to that victim victimizer narrative right that's underlying all of this and if you can tap into that then you get all the Well you certainly get all the leftwing radicals on your side instantly because
(26:09) they're of course 100% bought into the victim victimizer narrative and it enables them to explain the world and also to be moral because all you have to do is identify with the hypothetical victim the the thing I see happening in Palestine you can clear up any misconceptions on my part is like I've thought for decades that the Palestinians are sacrificial victims for any outside powers that want to delegitimize Israel and then it doesn't matter how many Palestinians die because they're essentially Expendable and that
(26:40) seems to me particularly true in relationship to Iran so it's completely in Iran's fundamental interest to ferment this chaos that you described it's not in the best interest of the Palestinians in any like the medium to long run but it doesn't matter as long as the trouble keeps UR uring it's hard on Israel it's hard on the United States it it it helps Iran maintain its like its iron grip um it obviously seems to me obvious that many people in the Arab world are working are waking up to that
(27:14) and have woken up to that I think that's why the Abraham Accords have more or less held through this because there are powerful forces allying Allied against Iran most fundamentally but it's in their best interest to keep the misery in Palestine Palestine going as long as it possibly can and my suspicions are that what happened on October 7th was command directly please you know feel free to disagree with me but this is how it looks to me is that the Iranians decided that it was time to stir the pot
(27:47) and they produced this massacre and they hoped they'd provoke Israel into exactly the sort of reaction that Israel is having and that Israel would take the threat extra ordinarily seriously and move in and as their military Victory mounted public opinion would turn against them and it would fragment the Abraham Accords I suspect that was their plan what what do you think about that is that is that in accordance with your understanding of the situation absolutely you know this is Iran's uh attempt to actually rearrange the region
(28:19) right uh but I don't want to go too far that also China and Russia have ambition of uh reshaping the world changing the world order but we we don't want to go too too far uh no cuz God only knows how that's going to turn out but it's it's basically uh Iran Russia China they made it very clear that they don't want the United States Monopoly over power they want to change the world order yeah uh Putin understands he he understands completely what it really meant for Hamas to go and ethnically cleanse 20
(28:59) Jewish communities and it was not coincidental right after the Ukraine Uh Russian war where all the attention was uh at Europe uh and uh we saw after what happened in Gaza nobody talk about Ukraine right right right right when you bring the three major major religions uh uh and make them Clash somehow uh the Hamas was the trigger probably I doubt that Hamas understand the KGB and Putin's uh play um but they are part of it and uh Putin is complicit in this situation so Iran does not act on its own the cost of living has already
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(30:38) pocket just text Jordan to 98 9898 that's Jordan to 98 9898 today in this situation so Iran does not act on its own you know when when they launched for example hundreds uh of ballistic missiles in the 21st century this is a major uh attack uh I haven't witnessed this In Our Lifetime maybe during the Iraqi War but it was it was not on this uh scale so anyway yes this this people don't care for the Global Security they are irresponsible and uh worse than this that we have experience with the Communists or let's
(31:17) say communist Islamic ideologies that they reached a did end they failed uh the Communist Islamic model uh did not bear fruit it did not emancipate Humanity it did not solve uh the human uh problem uh and they still insist on replacing capitalism yeah I don't think capitalism is the perfect uh solution but it's the better option for sure so anyway they insisting and they want uh this uh to to keep going and uh when we have a weak uh leadership uh with due respect um the Biden uh Administration is not showing
(32:01) leadership uh and in the Muslim culture the Arab culture uh they don't understand tolerance there is no such a thing not in the Muslim Consciousness maybe forgiveness but not tolerance uh and tolerance is mostly perceived as weakness and uh I speak as someone who grew up in that culture so every time you know when Trump was there for example everybody was terrified of him unpredictable and you don't know what he's going to do next so he moved the uh American Embassy to Jerusalem nobody dared even to challenge yeah right yes
(32:40) not even riots or any of that right yeah um but now uh the Obama Administration then now the Biden Administration um the Americans and the American power is not Respec they've enabled Iran yes mhm yeah one of the things that appalled me when when Biden took office is that I've been following the Abraham Accords quite closely because I thought they were well really quite the miracle and I knew from talking to people who were involved firsthand that the Saudis were very interested in having that process continue and very inclined to
(33:19) sign on and my sense with the Biden Administration was that that got scuttled because the Democrats were completely unwilling to give Trump any credit for anything he did during his administration and I thought that was absolutely unforgivable because it would have been and and the Democrats could have pulled this off they could have brought Saudi Arabia into the Abraham courts and they they squandered the opportunity and that's a complete catastrophe as far as I'm concerned an unforgivable catastrophe and you know
(33:50) here we are now as a consequence of it at least in part let's go back to when you were 13 I want to pick up the thread of that story okay so you're you're seeing all this catastrophe this chaos that you describe that redounds to the benefit of the conmen who are running the show for example and that is there to delegitimize um Israel and and the United States and to redown to the credit let's say of the Iranians operating in the background you're seeing all the consequences of this firsthand you decide that for a variety
(34:22) of complicated reasons you decide that you're going to face your fear of death you have this graveyard next next you're going there to investigate and to experiment what was the consequence of doing that for you and then how does that tie in with your transformation of worldview over time when I was very young and this is stuff I don't like to talk about because I choose not to be a victim and also I don't like uh to uh to become vulnerable because people think that you are weak MH uh stuff that I don't have to talk
(34:57) about but I think there's no way around it um because many people ask you know what motivates you and where you coming from um when I was very very young I was raped in a culture in a culture that would kill the rapist but also they would kill the rape victim MH so I never told anybody about that story I never got any support and had how old were you I was five or six years old when that happened now I had to heal on my own and it was a hell of a journey in a society that did not have mercy that they preferred that I would
(35:49) disappear so I don't bring shame on them right and I witnessed so many women being killed after being raped mhm that the father would prefer to kill his daughter to bury the shame with her not to have to face the society that his daughter was raped mhm what type of mentality is this what type of religion is this and this is not just a culture okay does it reflect on his inability to protect her is that the source of the shame it's his status his status it's his the father of he could not protect
(36:26) his daughter yeah yeah and now maybe the daughter is pregnant this was before abortion Etc okay the the daughter is pregnant what is he going to do with the child no he prefers to kill the daughter he does not want to go even uh to the to the degree that his grandchild is a result of a of a rape right incident so and uh from the sth century in Islam ER or in in Arabia they killed the infants so when I say sacrificing children this is not uh coincidental it's uh it's rooted in that culture so for me it was injust that I
(37:17) had to actually carry the burden instead of getting the support from the family from the society like at least to come and say who did it MH today today I'm 45 years old I'm very strong man I can confront the whole universe if necessary and up to now none of them asked the question who did it and by the way I had the power to uh kill the Predator down the road he's probably living in a nightmare why I didn't actually harm him because later on I got lots of power even when I was back in the teritory but I chose not to instead
(37:54) of going after the rapist I went after the belief system ah and this is where I need to create the change mhm I see so you the what's soal the Islam and I know this is very sensitive uh topic if the belief system if Allah thinks that the rapist and the raped are equal and they deserve the same punishment then this God does not have authority over man life and this is where I start questioning the entire belief system and I rebu how how come you're still alive well they tried to kill me and they're still trying to kill not bad
(38:35) they have been trying to assassinate me politically at least all this progressives and Muslim Brotherhood uh wearing all type of masks in the United States they have been trying to discredit me so I cannot even speak for myself to defend myself because I'm speaking on behalf all the wounded children in the region and I know their game and I know they don't care for the children instead my father sacrificed me he said this is not my son and I don't know him if you want to kill him his blood is allowed so when you have to choose
(39:09) between a hypothetical God that does not even exist and the future of children or your own child well we have a fundamental problem here then you come pausing to tell to tell the rest of the universe that Islam is a religion of Peace well no we have a big problem here we have to talk about it and I start talking about this I got cancelled yeah bet you got canceled so I and now I'm labored islamophobe what islamophobe I'm confronting this thing and I'm willing to die in its Pursuit because we there's
(39:46) no other way only the truth can set people free only the truth the same thing with Palestine it totally depends on the destruction of Israel in order for us to see what Palestine is and the manifestation of Palestine requires the destruction of Israel same thing with the Islamic State it requires the destruction of civilization all civilizations combined in order to achieve this Global State called uh KFA but we don't know how it is going to look like then so we have first to die for them to live then they can prove
(40:30) themselves it's if there is anything uh that defines Madness this is madness but so you were hurt very badly when you were very young and then you live through the antifa anata and you were right beside the graveyard and you decided that you're going to confront death relatively directly and overcome your fear of it you were doing some religious experimentation really at the same time then you said that you were testing out this hypothesis that there was torture in the grave you did that alone because your friends wouldn't come
(41:06) along with you which is like hardly surprising so you you said that you also decided with regards to being raped that your the proper response to that wasn't to go after the person specifically who was responsible but to go after something deeper than that which was the belief system that that gave rise to this problem all right so now you're you're 13 are these ideas already in your imagination like when when do you start sorting when did when was it that you started sorting this out um some of them were in the form of
(41:42) feelings just a gut feeling uh I did not have the mean to express them but I knew them uh it was not coincidental that I could not tell my own father about this situation but later on I knew that my punishment is death um so today I have the power to express myself I didn't know everything at that time but believe or not I felt it that this is uh this Society cannot be trusted and this is why today when I stand and I tell the world anyone who identifies as a Muslim I consider them as a threat I don't trust them and people say oh you
(42:30) cannot generalize this is like insane what you say no it's not insane because if their belief system has sentenced me to death many times for crimes that I haven't committed then you pause as a Muslim you carry that identity how am I supposed to feel towards you it's like coming to a Jewish Refugee during the Nazi era and say I am a Nazi come with me I'm not going to hurt you no you're taking the identity of a Nazi regime and whether you are the bad cup or the good cup it doesn't matter you
(43:09) are serving the same establishment and I'm tired of this moderate versus extremist every individual has the responsibility to know what they are identifying with you my individuality is above all religions and above all gods I don't accept to just take a label for myself not knowing what I'm getting myself involved into because only my parents pushed that religious identity on me and if I am at that level of Consciousness then how can I trust you with anything I cannot trust you with my woman I cannot trust you with my
(43:45) property I cannot trust you with my money I cannot trust you being even close to me because you don't qualify you don't know your IND individuality you are unpredictable you can be friendly now but 5 minutes later you can be a part of a crowd and you're going to show me your tasks you might bite me so then I have a problem okay what do you what do you make of moves on the part of countries like the UAE and and the other countries that are involved in the in the Abraham Accords let's say because that it looks
(44:19) to me like that's a pathway forward much different than the pathway laid out in Iran that right that holds out the possibility of something like a Repro between let's say Christianity Judaism and Islam do you see any hope on that side of things yes with a statement that I made this is my fundamental stand I don't compromise this truth and I don't respect anyone who identifi themselves as a Muslim in principle because why okay but this is my fundamental stand because I aim to reform a generation and I need people to
(44:58) get out of their Cave of delusion and think for themselves like for example I don't have a problem with the sufis and I don't have a problem actually with Muslims who don't pose as Muslims they don't have to uh uh bring their religious identity as they are entitled to something uh they want to intimidate me or maybe tempt me with something sincere devotional people don't need a religious identity at all all and those exist in the Arab and the Muslim world but also hypocrisy is is uh well
(45:35) so you know is the other side of the coin I just did a seminar on the gospels with some Scholars the same group that I walked through the story of Exodus with now we spent 20 hours going through the gospel accounts and the biggest enemies of Christ are the religious Hypocrites that's the Pharisees in that story and they're people who Proclaim allegiance to God while acting in their own service right the deepest of all possible sins right to invert the moral order so that you serve yourself well claiming to
(46:10) serve what's properly put in the highest place right there's no shortage of religious hypocrisy and I think it is it is the worst of all possible s because it inverts the cosmic order right it right it makes everything good subservient to what it is that you want and that's a very that's a ve I mean that that that can be obviously that's a problem faced by any religious system because any religious system can become overrun with Hypocrites but that's really what you're pointing to is the
(46:43) distinction between hypocrisy and it says in the gospels that you shouldn't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing and what that really means is that it's something like practice your devotion in itude in secrecy and don't Trump trumpet it don't make a show of it the the uh the activists in the west are exactly the same sort of people right they're wearing their morality on a stick look how good I am because I'm on the right side has nothing to do with them organizing their lives in any sense of
(47:16) the word all they have to do is Proclaim allegiance to the victim and they're on the top of the moral order mhm regardless of who they have to crawl in bed with to manage that particular stunt which is what we're seeing everywhere in the west at the moment after October 7th obviously and all this moral decay of course there's in common it's a human condition you know it's this why we're saying if we want to to see the new man if we want to integrate to a higher state of consciousness then we need to
(47:46) drop this uh political correctness what's the difference it's the same thing it's the same game yeah you know I was born in that that's why they end up on the same side and I was born in that belief like at least when it comes to me I don't have the right to criticize my own belief system and if I do I become uh it becomes a hateful speech who says this this is my Birthright to rebel and to criticize this what makes us Superior to animals especially that there's no such a thing as Islam we have so many
(48:25) denominations so BAS basically at least we what we can do now we can uh push them back they have to back off and we probably can uh apply political pressure where you know they will have to uh hold extremists accountable okay but after October 7 what I saw and this is why I went outrageous and I really told the Arab world listen if it comes down to choose between the entire Muslim population and a cow I choose a cow like at least the cow is very peaceful it gives us milk it gives us uh leather it gives us meat it very peaceful it's
(49:08) harmless but you what's your contribution and now we have this Global crisis where uh a minority uh religious minority being persecuted suffering ethnic cleansing on October 7 and instead of siding with truth to say that this does not represent us as a Muslim World instead they have been weaponizing their religious identity against this religious minority that is most creative with a greatest contribution to life and I don't see like this is the blueprint of our society I mean I I cannot imagine the western civilization
(49:50) or our civilization how how do you account for the fact that the Abraham Accords haven't collapsed I mean they haven't right they've held and that's again that seems to me to be a very positive thing I mean I think you could make a case that perhaps the people who are on the Abraham Accord side of the world could have been more forthright in their defense of Israel after October 7th but at least the whole bloody process hasn't collapsed I mean that's what Iran was hoping for it's not collapsed it's not
(50:17) collapsed and I think it is going to be rejuvenated after this war because it's in the interest of everybody yes and now the thing is Israel is showing everyone that violence is a dead end so what I am hoping for that I don't know if we have to go to the point where we have to deal with Iran and hisbah and this war could be a lot longer than people expecting but eventually the Middle East is going to reach the point especially Muslims and Arabs that violence is a dead end we are not going to tolerate violence you
(50:52) want to worship the stone worship it as much as you want but don't throw it at me don't dare to throw it at me because I will retaliate and this was the final result the use of force after exhausting every possibility with islamists with the Muslim Brotherhood especially which is Hamas there is no difference now that they learned the lesson they can stay in their delusion it's not my responsibility to go and try to pull them out of their cave but if they choose to act on it and manifest their delusion in the form of
(51:31) violence in the form of terrorism then we have very tough Warriors and we are going to fight I personally am fighting for my very existence I'm not an expert on the topic they want me to cease to exist hence my relationship and my understanding of Israel because Israel didn't do anything wrong to the Arabs and to the Jews except you know just being who they are and they want them to cease to exist this is how I feel why I feel with Israel it's there's no difference we are in the same situation
(52:05) where I didn't commit a crime against my people I didn't commit a crime against anyone even later on when I collaborated with Israel in the intelligence service my main goal was to just stop the madness stop suicide bombers from targeting civilians indiscriminately this was my goal this was my my moral compass I didn't do it because of a national uh motivation sleep is a foundation for our mental and physical health in other words you've got to have a consistent nighttime routine to function at your
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(53:30) checkout that's shop beam.com Peterson and use God Peterson for up to 40% [Music] off but I still became a traitor I say why why why you label me as a traitor why you condemn me to death all I I say I did not only save Jewish life I saved Al also Palestinian lives I saved my father's life and other Hamas leaders lives believe or not for 10 years I don't have blood on my hands I did not take part of killing any human being throughout 10 years of uh of war and chaos and bloodshed working around the clock to
(54:11) save people from their Madness trying to just juggle with the whole situation I was very young and I I I almost got killed so many times in the process sitting in a room full of explosives with potential suicide bombers 19 years old discussing who's going to die first that kind of situation and I am trying how can I stop this kid from killing so many other people this is not about treason it's about pro- lifee this is what we were doing yet a society that prays suicide bomb and attacks praise death because blinded with hatred
(54:54) towards the Jewish people that by the way they don't know nothing about the Jewish history they don't know nothing about the Jewish suffering they are not willing to study about the Holocaust instead they're teaching people the wrong and the false narrative and this is how they guarantee uh to stay in this victimhood for eternity so basically it's so complicated you know in in my uh in my Matrix that I I learned a lot about myself and I fought the good fight but right now I reached the point that I
(55:27) don't need to explain to anybody anything there's a volcano inside me is about to erupt and I don't care what people are going to say whether they're going to say mad crazy out of control they can say whatever they want we have to eradicate Hamas we have to finish islamists there is no room for Savages in our civilization and anyone who pose a threat against innocent civilians don't have equal rights it's as simple as that and all the voices coming from the United States say hey Palestinians
(56:00) give the Palestinians equal rights I say no first I want to see equal responsibility show me equal responsibility then we can discuss equal rights but you don't compare Savages to decent civilians or to decent civilized people who know their responsibility towards themselves and towards their neighbor and compare say hey Israel is democracy why you treat the Palestinian in such manner well there is no such a thing as Palestine to begin with and the entire social structure need to be studied before we decide what Palestine
(56:39) is because it's not a nation just political gangs fighting against each other finding Israel as a common enemy and when Israel is not there they will kill each other I promise you that so what happens to you at 13 I walk me through your life from 13 onward to to the point where you start working with the Israelis so just walk me through that whole that whole yeah biography so that was the first par and antifa yeah but it looks like I developed so many uh disorders because of the traumas of childhood and instead a society that can
(57:23) understand a child and what's going on what they did they beat me up everybody from the Hamas leaders to my parents to the teachers uh at school to the principal to the other kids in the streets everywhere I went at some point I got beaten up by a mob in fact in my life I got beaten up by a mob multiple times to the point where I went unconscious and why were you a target of that sort of I was just troublemaker and I am still a troubl maker this one of my best qualities so basically they did they wanted me to
(58:00) behave accordingly according the uh religious laws and the cultural laws but I didn't know why I was behaving that way I just wanted to Rebel there was lots of anger inside me and there is still lots of anger so what were you doing that was that was causing trouble I broke the rules at the mosque I played uh I just was very playful uh kid and they wanted me to just not do anything if I ran in the mosque once the IM at the mosque Lift Me Up Above his head and throw me flat on my back where I lost my breath and in other occasion I was
(58:43) whipped by Hamas leader with the electric cable to the point I lost Consciousness how old were you uh between the 10 and uh 18 years old this is like where the brutality of the society took place so if I was only a rape victim when I was very young I would say okay you know that was one event but come on you know everybody was conspiring against me and I still wonder why so many forces wanted me dead and they still don't have compassion to just look and say it's like wow this guy went through a lot like maybe you know what
(59:21) whatever he's saying he has the right at least to express it but they want to strip me even the right to talk about it so it's a brutal culture you know when some say what happened in October 7 was barbaric it's not only Hamas there is a majority in the gazan society that is complicit in this crime in fact for those who watch the footage of the October 7 crimes it was not only Hamas that committed crime most of the crimes especially raping and kidnapping were committed by G and civilians and I know now this is uh
(1:00:04) considered um or somebody can discredit me because I'm generalizing but I say the vast majority of that Society don't have mercy when it comes to children and no woman can walk freely and feel safe at midnight anywhere in the Palestinian territories this is why a father is willing to kill his daughter if she would leave the house without a companion because if she leaves the house with that companion there's a big chance that she's going to be raped on the streets and why you taking such a risk they
(1:00:34) would beat them up if they leave the house alone MH so it's a troubl society it's a death culture and I don't mean to label them as Savages and I don't want to say this because it's so hard it's my biological family this where I came from and I love the people I want the people to integrate but they want me dead still and as long as they are not able to make peace with their own child I don't know how they can make peace with other nations with other people with other what was your
(1:01:11) relationship with your father like I loved my father I loved him he was my God even though he beat me up in so many time I loved him and I loved my mother as well I loved my people I did not ha hate them I was just Troublemaker but it's not out of hatred even the ones who hurt me the most I was able to let go even my rapists or that guy I told you who he beat me beat me up or the teacher I did not go after them and it was not coincidental that existence gave me so much power during the second Parisian in
(1:01:47) which I was I had the capacity to pretty much uh give the permission to uh to an army to kill somebody and I refused especially when they were my opponents like so how did you how did you come to be in that position so so you're a young you're a young man 13 to 18 what what what's happening in your life and where do you end up so basically at the age of 18 uh the gap between me and that Society was really white and I questioned many things about about that culture Who We Are and why people just so cruel um and I want to take revenge but
(1:02:35) I thought i' take revenge from Israel and some somehow I wanted to go just suicidal because it was very hard you know to take a gun and go shoot my people so I thought okay how about I go against the occupiers our enemies and I decided that I'm going to buy a purchase gun and shoot some Israelis and just go as a Shahid that was my only escape and that was only at the age of 18 so I got the guns and uh before I did anything thankfully I was arrested by the Israeli intelligence during interrogation uh they offered me to work
(1:03:15) for them and I thought it was an opportunity to actually say yes and uh destroy them from with on one hand I would be released from prison and I would have a lot more information a lot more power and I can do something against cuz there was no way for any intelligence service to buy me uh let's say by money or by intimidation or any of that so that was actually my real motive and it's described uh in detail in in my uh in my books um but instead of releasing me they said you must go to prison if we release you
(1:03:58) uh people will get suspicious and you will get killed so I end up going to prison for 16 months this was my first imprisonment in prison I told Hamas about this encounter with the Israeli intelligence in prison in prison I told them the truth and this is my plan but they said is this everything I said this is everything I said no you write more so there is nothing else so who's your handling what's your mission like they did not give me any Mission Hamas became suspicious of me instead of helping me I
(1:04:35) became a suspect but my father is one of the founders of the movement so they could not torture me but in the meantime they were torturing hundreds of other prisoners for suspicion of collaborating with Israel dozens were killed during that time and hundreds were tortured they destroyed their lives completely they were brutal didn't this some of this was taking place in the prison you were in in prison all of it prison so I'm talking about the 16 months of a nightmare Beyond anyone's imagination where I am
(1:05:10) suspect but they are not touching me while everyone else everyone around me is being tortured and killed for 16 months and I was wondering is my turn going to come but because of my father's status and their hypocrisy and of course their shame uh they did not do anything uh to me but the thing is I didn't up to that point I did not betray I did I just told them the truth not under pressure I thought you know they could help me that this is my plan and this is how things went wrong between me and Hamas to the
(1:05:51) core when I was released from prison after 16 months uh Hamas followed up outside the prison my father was still in prison but different Israeli prison at that time so he wasn't there to protect me and I was outraged are was he in prison with you no no no my father was in a high security prison I was in a like more of a jail okay okay so he was in inside prison to protect me and when I was released he was still in Israeli prison my father spent some 30 years of his life in Israeli prisons so now outside the prison Hamas is
(1:06:31) coming after me to say it's like just keep us posted what's going on and now uh they're I don't want to say blackmailing me but uh in the human nature the Handler of Hamas found opportunity actually to um to take a to Total Advantage he wanted me to become somehow like his and I was in a situation I prefer to die you know I did not betray my people I don't have any intention to betray anybody I was thought that okay you know we're fighting against occupation and this is the way to just become a Shahid
(1:07:10) and exit all this tragedy for good so I was going suicidal I did not mean you know to uh to sell my people for money so the only Refuge was left on the table is to actually go to the Israeli intelligence and ask them for help from Hamas this time because Hamas what were they requiring of you the the the Hamas Handler what what was being required of you the moment they put you at defense and you are in a society like this where everything is ruled based on shame and honor it's the most shameful thing you
(1:07:52) they can ask you to do whatever they want you to do and uh it's up to the individual it's not even to the Hamas movement so uh and they're going to hold it against you for eternity what kind of life is this it's like someone is holding something against you but and nothing will clean that Shain no matter what you do except if you die even if I became a suicide bomber the shame will hunt me to my grave this was the reality of it so this is where I think everything just went out of control I was like since
(1:08:32) childhood I had no mercy from this people and right now trying to actually just Escape My Misery by dying for Allah by dying for the nation against the Zionist occupation they're coming after me so this is my psychic and I was no matter what I do even if I die I will never be able to please them and why would I die so in the first encounter with the Israel intelligence I told them the whole truth how did you make contact with them they made a contact with me after I was released from this was the original plan
(1:09:12) wasn't it yeah okay yeah so after I was released from prison uh they contact me and um er in the first meeting I asked them why didn't you come to help the people people who were tortured in prison if you now want me really to work for you you abandoned money you abandoned me they said none of these people who were tortured and killed had any relationship with the Israeli intelligence it's all in Hamas head the Handler said I have been working with the agency for 18 years one asset in our district was was cut in
(1:09:54) the action and This Man still alive in the United States and he gave me the name of that person he said this is the only one this is the only true story the hundreds of others who have been killed had no relation they are all innocent people well if he was telling me the truth this is even uh more disastrous and uh I decide to go to the second to go back to the second meeting and the third meeting and every meeting they were just building me up I was so broken building you up in what way building me up in uh education uh
(1:10:39) conversation open conversation about who they are what they do uh and so this is when your political attitude started to switch your your attitude towards history not yet this was just the early beginning it was the early beginning because simply um the said here's money you go back to school and they gave me enough money exact amount that pays for my school and uh when I needed uh to uh to do anything Financial they said not possible we cannot give you any amount of money because if we give you money and you do you cannot prove where you
(1:11:20) got this money from they will kill you so I said you only go to school oh what's my mission there is no mission there was no gun there is no go SP what school did you go so did you go back to high school I went back to the high school I graduated from high school but also they wanted me to go to college and I graduated four years college and during that entire time they funded my education my education only and there was no other deal than that there is was no other deal why did they do that because this is how they work and this
(1:11:50) is how the Israeli intelligence work they said from the beginning they said listen we don't work with losers it doesn't matter like the fact that you are son of a Hamas leader does not qualify you you must be like us you need to think like us and you need to be a part of your society and you need to be productive you cannot be a loser if you are a loser you will not gain the respect of your own society and they did a long process of um fool in Hamas uh that we don't have a relationship that included you know some
(1:12:28) attack on our house some arrests in the future uh all type of Illusion uh orchestrated by the Israeli intelligence to just convince the society that I was a wanted person at some point that there was no way in the world um that I had a relationship with the Israeli intelligence especially when Hamas start building their trust with me again and I had uh top secrets of the movement but the Israelis did not act uh upon my intelligence or my information to just keep Hamas fear and safe for as long as possible um so part
(1:13:08) of the building me up you know it was we had hundreds of meetings and uh ER they showed me uh many of the values for example when we got into operation later on civilians were involved we avoid Civ civilians every time um the civilian involvement was a big concern for the agency and I was really surprised because I thought that the wisdom on the Palestinian street that the Israelis will give you poison to put in the town's water they will give you a gun to shoot your own people they will make you rape women and take uh footage of them
(1:13:49) so you can blackmail them uh they will all type of crazy stories that they had it had nothing in reality and I was on my own they never connect me with anyone else and uh after my college this is I think was the period where I was ready um to uh to do something good for myself what did you take in college I studied history uh and what aspect of History ER it was history and social studies but I studied the world history uh Middle East history uh the history of religion MH U of course you cannot cover everything in
(1:14:31) four years but uh I did as much as I could and I was very interested in the topic if you're always on the lookout for products to boost your immune strength and gut health you need to check out Arma Arma is the gift that keeps on giving it'll help strengthen your skin lungs and gut barriers optimize your microbiome and activate cellular performance to revive whole body Health armor products are not just effective they're also your trusted companions they're clean safe and have a solid foundation of extensive research
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(1:15:29) com Jordan or enter Jordan at checkout to get 15% off your first order TR r y ar.com Jordan that's Tri armor.com Jordan or enter code Jordan checkout so what did your what did your education change for you um education was just uh the um the first step I had to educate myself like for example um while I was in prison uh I studied English uh I memorized uh Oxford dictionary I was reading 16 hours a day and I spent lots of time in Israeli prison this is how I spent my time when I was released I opened up to Christianity especially the Bible and
(1:16:25) the Bible had a huge impact on my life especially you know the the New Testament and the teachings of uh Christ which to me you know it's not Christianity as much as Christ Consciousness it's a state Advanced State of Consciousness um and the challenge of love love thy enemy and that came in a in a place where I was uh conflicted where you actually had enemies exactly and who is my enemy like is it my people is it my rap is it my tortur is it Israel is it who is it so uh the uh challenge of love thy enemy really made
(1:17:06) peace with the world somehow um and um I decided that I don't have enemies anymore and this what helped me actually heal and progress so I made a principle that I did not want to kill any of my opponents but I have to say that today I regret it today I regret it the influence of Christ consciousness of just love everybody unconditionally um did not get me to where I needed to be because today I'm under the influence of cause and effect not right and wrong and I think there's no Escape for anybody from Karma
(1:17:52) or from their own actions nobody's Above This universal law it has nothing to do with cultures and I tried so hard to save my father's life if I wasn't in the picture they would have killed him a thousand times saying that he's I thought to myself he's mate he's in a political way he's not a military Wing but this is the problem of this is a moderate and this is extremist then you go into this rabbit hole and you never find your way out I thought to myself no you are complicit in Hamas
(1:18:28) crimes then uh you uh qualify for uh the same punishment as any of their uh attackers on October 7 and this is why I had to take a moral stand and say all Hamas leaders must be executed what happened in October 7 was a capital crime a genocide cannot be taken late lightly this is not just uh an act of resistance ER to wipe out 20 plus communities based on their ethnic background based on their religion uh is not an act of resistance is not justified killing babies killing children raping women kidnapping hostages killing animal burning trees
(1:19:25) nothing gets worse than this and it requires Capt crime and I had the thought what about my father who I loved very much who disowned me 14 years ago I never give up on him I was like always you know in my heart this is my father I love you what whatever you know you did necessary to just shun me and throw me to the mouth of death it's no problem as long as you are okay but after October 7 I had to make a very difficult choice [Music] because this is where or when we have to draw the line all of us are connected to a certain interest
(1:20:16) that this is a family relationship this is a love relationship my relationship to this property my personal interest to a certain degree hence we compromise the truth even though the obvious truth that what happened in October 7 is wrong it doesn't matter if they if Muslims did it they are wrong I don't care if they are Buddhist if they are Americans it doesn't matter who they are it was wrong and I take the moral stand my father is complicit in this and especially when I saw him on the top of a demonstration supporting Hamas in our
(1:20:56) town in rala this was the moment that I thought he's not my father anymore cannot be and the hostage situation was very hard that I didn't know how Israel is going to bring those hostages back and Hamas want Mass murderers to be released happened to be same people who were torturing prisoners on my watch and happened to be the same uh Mass murderers who carried suicide bombing attacks during the second Palestinian Ina like ibraim hammed and Abdullah Alti people I new personally this people Hamas is asking
(1:21:39) to release and we cannot release them we cannot put them back to the streets for innocent hostages such impossible situation so my suggestion and this is again you know the isra I knew the Israeli government will not do that but I give them the permission to execute all these Mass murderers because if if they were executed from the beginning Hamas would have not kidnapped a one-year-old hostage asking for their release but then what about my father my own father is he an exception he could not be an exception no one can be an exception if they are
(1:22:25) complicit in a genocide so this is where you know since October 7 it just as chaotic as it is in the Middle East and my life also is chaotic and I don't have way around it to see the Muslim population weaponizing their religious identity against the Jewish as a religious minority and I have known the Jewish people for about 27 years now actually my relationship with the Jewish nation is a lot deeper than my relation with the Muslim Nation it's a lot longer a lot deeper many of the Jewish Mothers throughout this journey they took me in
(1:23:05) you know a country a nation that really give me so much support I'm not talking about financial support as much as like sincere uh concern for my well-being I've been to hundreds of Jewish families Shabbat dinners uh I have adapted nephews Jewish nephews that they're fighting in Gaza today so in in the face of such a situation how can I abandon the Jewish people those are my people right now and the Arabs also the Arab children I see myself this is me and I see how the Predators the pro Palestine and the Hamas billionaires and
(1:23:52) the other uh um criminals taking advantage of the situation on a global scale I find myself just fighting at so many fronts that it just it makes out of me an absolute mad person so you your education was paid for by the by the Israeli intelligence agency and you started to question your concept of their work and then you broadened your education formally H how is it that you worked for the Israeli intelligence organization how did that come about and what sort of work did you do so cuz you said to begin with they
(1:24:43) were just paying for your education and you were talking to them and you were learning that they were different than you thought yes and I was also very young at that point um things became serious at the beginning of the second Palestinian inada and that was so the the beginning of this journey with the Israeli intelligence started in 1996 the second Palestinian antifa started in 2000 right before uh 9911 so I was already uh towards the end of my school and I knew enough about Hamas about the Palestinian Authority and it happened that I was
(1:25:33) part of yaser arat meetings and I was part of other Palestinian factions meetings Islamic Jihad fat uh and my relation based on my father's uh uh public status I was able to go pretty much anywhere I wanted to go and uh people knew me from my childhood even though I was troublemaker you know at that time I was a lot more stable and uh what position exactly did your father play or hold so so basically my father's position of course is changing but because of internal uh elections and his status would never be
(1:26:18) revealed to the public not even to Hamas members because the voting for his status would be only limited to the Hamas leadership at that time I think he was from uh the uh or he maintained throughout his career with Hamas top top leadership in the Hamas sh Council plus uh a huge chance that he's one of the founders of Hamas but he never revealed that I know I knew this from other Hamas leaders but he would never reveal that information to me okay um okay they usually reveal this information after his death so we're
(1:26:55) talking about he's he he's not only a leader of the movement he's also the spiritual leader of the movement today he could be the spiritual father of the movement this is his significance so not just [Music] logistical um and um of course after my story came out his his status in the movement was shaken right but somehow they wanted to give him as much support as uh as they could okay so now we're at the second intifa this is about this you said this is just before 911 this is around the year 2000 right okay so
(1:27:37) what's happening and you you have access to all these meetings right but you've already established relationship with the Israeli intelligence yes so so basically um trust between me and the Israeli intelligence was already established and um I was highly motivated uh to uh capture a suicide bomber before they reached their target Israel was really struggling with this issue uh we had so that became your mission it was suicide bomber prevention oriented yes the thing is everything was happening in front of my eyes the only
(1:28:16) thing I just needed to set my intention that do I want to do this job do I want to do this very difficult job or not because even though they I established the relationship with the Israeli intelligence but did not mean that I was forced to do anything so I was in the mosque I was in the meetings I was in the safe houses I was pretty much everywhere and uh any strange encounter between two Hamas members I was able to just detect that this is unusual we have to look into it um now what what was more important than
(1:28:54) the Israel intelligence had lots of information but it would take an expert uh hours and hours to go through thousands of pages to come to a conclusion for me if I hear the story I would come to the conclusion immediately so I was able to piece the puzzle and many people think that I was inform formant like going and bringing information but what they didn't realize actually the Israel intelligence had the information already and all I was just in a meeting peace in the puzzle um and then when I go back to the
(1:29:30) society I act based on what I know now from uh from the meetings uh so uh the information the intelligence that I received from the shinb uh helped me navigate uh a thousand times stronger than if I was only uh a son of Hamas leader so I end up knowing about Hamas a lot more than what my father knew about Hamas operation um so being part of that culture and uh having whatever information uh it it made my position very very strong that the that I was able to reach a suicide bomber before they reached their target MH how many times did you
(1:30:25) do that okay and I I hate to talk about this okay okay I hate to talk about it because this is where I start playing the hero and even in the book I would talk about it but I think right now it's inevitable because many people are trying to discredit my journey and it's a vow it's uh also uh that I'm supposed not to talk about operation um and reveal the secrets of our work to the enemy uh but you can say the least dozens of suicide bombing attacks dozens on regular basis uh from capturing five suicide
(1:31:06) bomber at the time to seven suicide bomber bombers at the time to capturing the masterminds that includes the bomb maker and that was our biggest concern in fact somebody like abdah Bari which was very very dangerous Hamas asset the most dangerous Hamas bomb maker um he's in Israeli prison today uh I was the first to reach his location his lab uh and recognize him um responsible for the death of at least 100 people at that time before he was arrested uh ibraim hammed and the entire Hamas mil wing of the West
(1:31:57) Bank um which they they were using um uh a research Santa as their cover they never come to the mosque they never participate in Hamas activities they're all shaved they don't have beards they're in the intellectuals ETC historians and uh I had my suspicion but the agency did not have any information about this guy guys there were five of them um and I kept arguing for about three years arguing with the agency that this people are doing something wrong doing something and nobody would listen to me until finally we realized that
(1:32:40) this people have been the core group behind 95% of the suicide bombing attacks during the second person and the father just they were there and we we could not make the connection then finally the agenc is like how did you come to this conclusion so many times there was just like a gut feeling or like literally I would just be taking my uh little sister to the school in the morning and all of a sudden I see this Most Wanted enter in a building and this was his apartment his safe house then I called the agency
(1:33:16) and I say I found it but how did you find him I was I was just driving and he just entering the building they could not believe it Ibrahim hammed the agency did not see him in 8 years they did not see his face in8 years and I finally locate him so it was at some point I remember AAR was the head of the agency at that time he said get him out they get him out he's going to get killed because the amount of operation whether in fat uh Hamas Islamic Jihad public front for liberation of Palestine in fact yat after winning the
(1:33:55) Nobel priest prize uh I was I was the source that brought the information of his relation to uh suicide bombing attacks because I was in that meeting and the information that was was given to AR Shon the Israeli uh prime minister at that time my identity was never uh revealed the same information that was used in the uh un Security Council so why am I telling you this not to brag about it the amount of intelligence my life was on the line every day every single day during the second Palestinian in all the way up to Hamas CP in
(1:34:37) Gaza and I told the Israeli intelligence that Hamas is up to something they said but this is too much it's too hard to believe the Palestinian Authority has 35,000 police officers Hamas has only 5,000 the the the it's not possible for them to overthrow the Palestinian Authority I told them this is Hamas plan and this is what's going to happen and that was three months before Hamas took over Gaz okay now where it's going to get tricky you know this is stuff that I don't like to talk about nobody give a damn and three
(1:35:15) months later Hamas was in power and instead of destroying Hamas and not allowing them to grow um the world pressure against Israel that this is an elections and Hamas won the elections and we have to accept them as a legitimate political party and they just kept uh playing this game and Israel agreed to go into their Rabbit Hole until Hamas became the power it became and even from the first war with Hamas Israel was determined to destroy Hamas completely but the world came seize fire now and we seize fire the
(1:35:53) first war the second war the third war the fourth war and every time they use children as human sheets and this time it was there's no way around it you'll have to eradicate them otherwise they will do a lot worse in the in the next War how do you understand the relationship between Hamas and Iran it's a very weird and awkward relationship because Shia and Sunni they hate each other and so there's a bloody history between both uh sects but the uh it's in Iran's interest to destabilize the the region and they find
(1:36:33) in Hamas uh a device they they they give Hamas billions of dollars but they why do you think the Americans especially the Democrats why do you think they can't see this because everybody's after their interest like for example right now we have Iran's uh full attack on Israel ballistic missiles okay we downed many of those and the United States help the UK other NATO countries this is am Arab states Arab states okay this is great but are we supposed to be a defense is this the best we could do that we just stand at defense the super
(1:37:17) power I would destroy the Iranian nuclear program immediately this is what I called from from day one I said the most adequate response to October 7 is the destruction of Iran's nuclear program you cannot give a Muslim country a nuclear power it was a big mistake to let Pakistan to become a nuclear power this is this could lead to uh to a global situation a very ugly situation they are not responsible they are dictatorship they they they are not accountable to anybody but Allah how can you give them our of Allah of course yeah and how how
(1:37:59) Allah itself I don't want to say even interpretation because Allah as is in the Quran is a very dangerous entity so it's not a matter of misinterpretation that you know the guy is a very good guy in the Quran and the islamists or extremists see him as a as as a bad guy no he's a bad guy sooner or later the world is going to wake up on a disaster and realize what we are saying is the truth so the United States is not doing their job we don't we have advanced Weaponry like for example the electromagnetic bomb will drop one of
(1:38:36) these paralyze their entire system no civilians will die in this process just send them back to the Stone Age and in the meantime destroy their nuclear program show them you know who is the boss but instead we are compromising so they can get access to our intellectual property and use our weapons against us this is insanity but why the Biden Administration doing this because he's trying to please the voters he's trying to please Rashid at he's trying to uh please that's all part of that victim
(1:39:13) victimizer narrative yes he's trying to please everybody and I say you know if is strong leaders take risk take risk weak leaders try to please everybody and I think this is the situation of this Administration you cannot please everybody you cannot please Israel and please Rashid simultaneously you cannot you need to choose who's my ally in this situation Israel is a reliable Ally and they are under attack and they are protecting the American interest in the region they are maintaining the stability of the uh of the region I
(1:39:52) don't want to say the word it's not just an AE but then they come and and accuse America of giving support to Israel well how much support Israel give the United States how much support the Jewish uh population in the United States American Jews give the American treasury from their tax money and the in every aspect uh of economy what conclusions did you draw about the Jewish Society in Israel as you became more and more familiar with its nature yeah well first of all it's it's democracy that uh it's a diverse Society
(1:40:37) there are the Muslims there are the Jews the Christians their human rights you know one of the things that uh was just unbelievable during the second Palestinian intifa when a building collapsed and they were clashes on the checkpoints everywhere shooting at soldiers it was very dangerous for the Israelis to come to enter the city of ramala but when the building collapsed we did not have rescue team we did not have a fire department because it's such a corrupt system that invested all the money in luxury and they never uh invest
(1:41:12) the money in infrastructure so the dozens of workers stuck under the rubble and we cannot get them out so we had to call the uh the Israelis during the second in while we shooting at them to say please come into ramala to the city center and help us so the Israel sent the fire department of course with the IDF to protect them the entire day evacuating the uh the victims uh taking them to Israeli hospitals and after a long day the IDF exit the city of ramalan and people rewarded them shooting at them throwing Mor mov
(1:41:58) cocktails throwing stones Etc my job I was there because my job was just be there to make sure that the the troops are okay so the the troops protecting the rescue team I am there to make sure that the troops are okay and the civilians of ramala are waiting for the troops to evacuate after helping the Palestinians by throwing stones mot of tails and shooting at them this type of events you know are just insane and uh it just keeps going like this everything um about the uh Palestinian uh mentality the Arab culture and uh you see the law and order
(1:42:45) that there is protocol the Israeli intelligence follow a Protocol no one was arrested if Israel did not have evidence of their involvement in terrorism and no one was assassinated especially the most dangerous terrorists that Israel could not arrest that they were hiding uh in the city centers that none of them were killed if they did not have direct relationship to Suicide bombing attacks and they had blood on their hands none so you saw an organization that ran by rule of law the Absolut absolutely and there is no doubt about it and this
(1:43:25) is why I'm heart broken because I know what's happening in Gaz right now really pushed Israel to the corner that they had no other choice uh and there was no possibility to avoid uh civilian casualties after October 7 because I know at their heart they would never hurt uh an innocent civilian and they gave the why did you become convinced of that because in our operation this is how we dealt with the situation so you saw this firsthand yes like later on one of the exceptions of my entire career that it
(1:44:04) was uh a day where the agency had no choice um but to kill uh one of Y arafat's bodyguards his name was muhamad Abu halawa this guy was killed about 13 Israelis and he was hiding in yasat compound I was the one who discovered him so I was the only one who uh could recognize it and um the Israeli intelligence said listen we have no one else except you and this guy is going every night shooting and killing people yaser arat gave him immunity the Israeli intelligence could not go into Yar arat compound and arrest
(1:44:54) and they could not predict where he's going and they didn't know how he looked like so they wanted him dead that was the only way to deal with him so the ageny said listen you have your moral thing you don't want to kill anybody but if this guy is not dead he's going to kill people tonight tomorrow night and he's going to go like this so this is when I had to compromise um the uh first attempt a top fat leader was in the cop his name is Marwan baruti he's today in Israeli prison and everybody said that this
(1:45:31) could be the next Palestinian president and the operation was cancelled because there was other terrorists in the car I'm not talking about like a civilian in the car and this guy was so hard to find like the agency would say like you know what eliminate both of them we are not going to take a risk that he's going to kill more uh Israeli cines and the operation was cancelled I was really shocked okay I was shocked so our job was many times when we knew about a safe house of a terrorist okay is his family
(1:46:07) there okay when is his family leaving H it always civilian uh situation was taken to consideration and this is a 10 year experience so when when people come to me today it's like that Israel is e techically cleansing the Palestinians it's a lie Israel Israel is accountable to international law isra Israel cannot do this even if there was corruption let's say some racist within the the IDF and they did something illegal they would be uh held accountable but this is not a state policy it cannot be but people
(1:46:47) want to see it in black and white if you come try to bring them other truth like for example what's happening today is is a collateral damage and it's not only that who's killing the civilians did people take to consideration that Hamas put booby traps everywhere and how would we know the difference between Israeli air strike and Hamas Bobby trap that targeted civilians and how do we know actually that it's not in Hamas interest to kill civilians MH so uh then how many Hamas clearly in their interest of course this
(1:47:24) is this is the most powerful weapon in their hands to delegitimize Israel and get legitimacy I think it's impossible to understand the situation in Israel without understanding that the Palestinians are expendable yeah so Hamas is committing not only a capital crime by committing a genocide on October 7 which actually defines the genocide then the Muslims around the world uh outnumber Israel uh and uh change the narrative so fast that we go from a Jewish genocide on October 7 to a Palestinian genocide in less than 70 days this is how fast
(1:48:08) that's effective work on Iran's part my estimation so let me we're running near the end of the time we have in this session for everybody watching and listening I'm going to continue this conversation on The Daily wire plus side for another half an hour um so you know uh be welcome to join us there um I guess I'd like to ask you uh there's many things obviously that we've left undiscussed but that's going to be how it is I would like you to tell me what you think about what's happening
(1:48:40) on the streets in Western cities but most specifically on University campuses with regards to the pramas movements that seem to be everywhere and if you were speaking with a group of students who are acolytes of the victim victimizer narrative and portraying their moral superiority by adopting the identity of allies of Hamas it's like what do you have to say about that um again it's not uh one uh uh one phenomena it's many uh with different motives are coming uh to claim to be a pro Palestine it's not only a pro Hamas
(1:49:33) Hamas is actually um igniting the blood lust in many of the demonstrators so when Hamas when Hamas scores uh and the shed blood this gives them uh uh the pleasure of inflicting pain on their opponents they say oh they deserve it because they are the Zionist they're the colonizers they're the occupiers they are the bankers they are the the ones who control the economy those are the ones we are in debt to so so many many people come with a different motive and this is just the hatred against the successful minority
(1:50:20) yeah this is the curse when you are a successful minority many people are going to come after you especially if you are down or if you are wounded that they will come and try to kick you while you're down MH so many forces uh that they are as we discussed the beginning that they are opposing forces but somehow they got United in in a very disgusting way that shows you the moral decay of such uh groups and I'm not talking only about students there are historians there intellectuals there are lawyers who bought into um er the BDS or
(1:51:00) the pro Palestine propaganda which is basically that Israel is an aperti State um that Israel has been or the zionists been uh ethnically cleansing the Palestinian people if the Palestinians had a Palestinian state would have not been in this situation uh Hamas is a resistant group so and everybody uh project their hatred uh based on their intelligence and based on their uh ability to express that so some intellectuals they can represent the uh their hatred but uh in a deceptive way that does not show hatred just like show
(1:51:50) uh uh it's always allyship for the victim you know yes yeah that's the best possible mask for like a sadistic hatred that's for sure yeah so are you speaking anywhere like do you do you have the opportunity to speak publicly well I have been cancelled from many universities because you probably Now understand why yeah i' say so but I'm I'm okay with that I'm not afraid of being canceled I I've been canceled by my own family by my own people so when when I have uh American campuses or American
(1:52:26) universities canceling me I'm not uh affected like I don't feel ashamed yeah that oh my God you know this is a threat to my career because I never intend to make a career you know and I don't care about my Public Image as much as I I care about where where do I stand morally and am I at peace with myself or not but anyway uh I find my way to speak uh to the students and I challenge them uh yesterday we had a debate I thought I've been trying to get the pro Palestine Advocates anyone to an open debate let's go let's
(1:53:06) talk about the thing this is the way of the West dialogue we cannot be clashing like this inciting for violence harassing Jewish people harassing successful people bringing the Hamas nightmare into the American soil globalizing the in globalizing the chaos well these are very dangerous terms that we don't know what we're talking about from The River To The Sea they don't understand that back in 1987 when people start chanting from The River To The Sea violence followed just shortly after that and this is my
(1:53:40) childhood trauma and when I saw the people chanting from The River To The Sea I knew we were in trouble so this is why I tried to counter this Force but nobody wants to listen so I thought to myself yeah well that narrative that underlying Narrative of victim victimizer that's very intractable it's very difficult thing to move it's so morally attractive well and try to get them out of their comfort out of their uh convenient truth and they will crucify you this is the price you pay so practically just two days ago we had uh
(1:54:20) a debate a I had to pay somebody $20,000 from my pocket to debate me on the topic because no one else agreed to uh where was that debate Berkeley University and that's one of the most respectful educational institutions that they cannot even host a debate on their own yeah yeah a debater had to pay from his own pocket to bring his opponent to have a discussion and the the funny thing that this guy acts like a giant outside of the debate like when you see him at jazer is Al jazer host and was a CNN anchor delivered the
(1:55:05) speech to the United Nation and called from a United Nation Podium from the river to the sea but when he came to the debate he agreed with 90% of the things that I was saying I was like then who are you mhm that you're outside you know just this outrageous uh anti- Zionist anti-israel Pro Palestine and all of a sudden here you're just chcken out and I cannot find a debate like a decent debate I'm I've been calling them out you know come debate me let's talk about this this is not a joke children
(1:55:46) are dying this is not a political stand this is not a career I'm not your typical expert coming on the topic M MH you get in the way where I'm trying to stop the death of innocent children protect them from predators that have been killing them for 70 years by the name of Palestine you get in my way I destroy you if if if necessary so I'm not politically correct I cannot be and I don't care if you cancel me or not and I'm not in a position even to reason with you we are at War right now it's finished we can
(1:56:25) talk about it later but it breaks my heart that America is my country now and I have responsibility towards the people that we don't want to bring the antifa here we don't want to globalize the antifa in fact we want to De globalize it we want to localize it we want to cut all the uh foreign entities that have been trying to take advantage of of this conflict and we have to give the power to the people to the Arabs they are Arabs they're not Palestinians so please help me with this this is what I've been
(1:57:05) trying to spread that there is no such a thing as Palestine Palestinian is a political identity it's a corrupt one a colonial one it's actually very disrespectful for the Arabs who were born in that region to call themselves after a colonial entity and adapted as a national identity it's just absur this is why I don't use the term for myself to say no keep them Arabs they were born there they have the birth right to be there but what they need they don't need a state they need a police force they
(1:57:39) need education they need economy MH they need decent leadership that works towards building a nation they need a civil Constitution they need to be friends with Israel and drop their stupid idea of d in Israel because Israel is going nowhere if they cannot see Israel as just the same way they see themselves when they look at an Israeli child like they see them as their own child then we have a problem we cannot justify the killing of Jewish children because they are Jewish this is where I need this to uh to be
(1:58:23) and I don't want this whole nationalism this whole Palestine so of course when I see now globalizing the issue bringing the states and uh making free free Palestine what is well your Palestine is not a hostage in my basement stop saying free free Palestine you know decent human beings decent Americans would say free the hostages not tear down the the posters of hostages you know not even allowing their families to represent their case in the land of the free and what they want to free they want to free a concept A Dangerous
(1:59:00) political concept that actually depends on the destruction of order at the expense of children at the expense of generations at the expense of individuality who are we you know we we are Americans this is I mean not only Americans anybody in the west this is our value system so this is where gets really as you see like I speak about it with lots of strong emotions because there is no way there is no other medium for me what's happening is absurd not only on the American campuses before you say free Palestine at what expense at
(1:59:38) the expense of Israel you want ethnic cleansing from The River To The Sea so this hypothetical political entity would take place in reality and who's going to pay the priz the Palestinian children and for how long we have been paying this price for 70 years and all we received in return suffering pain confusion and a minority of con artists became billionaires y arat had $9 billion in his bank account before he died and it vanished because his wife stole it after she killed him and this is the first time I see it in
(2:00:23) yes after his wife un plock the life support and he died even the Palestinian people don't know this and let them go figure his wife is his killer so we're talking about uh such corruption and fight for money where the first lady is killing the the father of the nation uh and in the meantime uh screwing a a mad agent so I I'm I'm done with this I don't want to see more children die and I don't care for the uh Palestinian entity all right sir thank you we'll pick this up on the daily wire plus side for everybody
(2:01:10) watching and listening yeah thank you very much for talking to me today thank you all for your attention and uh as I said if you want to join us on the daily wi Plus side to conclude this conversation please feel more than welcome to do so [Music]
